Meetings in 2008

27 May 2008 - Where do we go next with the Scottish ID Card? and AGM

The group's coordinator, John Welford, described the briefing meeting for MSPs held at the Scottish Parliament on 17 April.  There had been three speakers - John Welford, speaking as a 'concerned pensioner', Jim Kinney, Director of Operations at the Improvement Service and Phil Booth, NO2ID National Coordinator.  John Welford had emphasized that the entitlement card had all the essential characteristics of an ID card.  He showed a comparison table of the former local authority bus pass, the new Entitlement Card and the proposed UK ID Card.  Contrary to the assumption of the Improvement Service, it was a disadvantage rather than an advantage to have travel, library and other access facilities all dependent on a single card.  Fuller information is at http://www.jwelford.demon.co.uk/snec/report.pdf.

Jim Kinney had said that the Improvement Service was a partnership between the Scottish Executive, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (COSLA) and the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives (SOLACE).  It was intended to coordinate and improve the IT systems of the 32 local authorities in Scotland. He had described in some detail this particular project, 'Customer First', which was intended to help ensure that citizens obtained the services to which they were entitled.  He had shown a different comparison table of the three cards, which was disputed by Mr Welford.

Phil Booth had emphasized data security, protection and privacy. They were all needed but were not the same as each other.  He had shown a diagram from the Improvement Service which had links to the individual's data records from the DVLA, HMRC, NHS and other organizations not hitherto publicized. He had drawn attention to the Young Scot card which should not have the date of birth printed on the card. If there were no published Terms and Conditions for the Entitlement Card, how could the citizen sensibly agree to data sharing? How could the citizen opt out?

John Welford added that even if the citizen had chosen to opt out of data sharing, how could he be sure that his data were not shared? The current situation had created a dilemma for the anti-ID card Scottish Parliament.

In the AGM part of the meeting John Welford, David Muxworthy and John Wood were re-elected as Edinbugrh group coordinator, secretary and treasurer respectively.

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30 April 2008 - Iain Smith MSP (Scottish Liberal Democrats)

Mr Smith had kindly agreed to speak at short notice as the original speaker, Margaret Smith who also was a Lib Dem MSP, was indisposed.  He said that the Liberals had a strong historical association with supporting civil liberties going back to the time of slavery in the 18th and 19th centuries. It was that aspect of policy which had attracted him to join the party.

He emphasized that it was the database that was the problem - NO2ID should put emphasis on the dangers of the database rather than the ID card itself.  Databases were everywhere nowadays.  Showing his Nectar card, he said he had bought a shredder with his Nectar bonus points, which was somewhat ironic. The dangers of databases increased with their size: the ID card database would be the most dangerous ever created.

There was a contrast between the liberties of the many compared with the liberties of the individual.  Labour seemed to be unable to comprehend individuals' rights.  Opponents of ID cards had been characterized as being weak on anti-terrorism, which was nonsense. Detention without charge for 28 days was already longer than in any democratic country and no case had been made for extending the limit.  Other means could be used, for example phone-tap evidence and removing the ban on post-charge questioning.  There was no evidence whatever that ID cards would reduce terrorism, despite what the Home Office website said, and ID cards would promote ID theft rather than prevent it.  The way to keep data secure was not to keep it in the first place.  Health and finance data were at risk, giving increased scope for fraud and blackmail.

How would future governments use these data?  Why did Labour need them? We must guard against any government acquiring the tools for a police state.  Already such tools tended to be used against ethnic minorities. ID cards also threatened freedom of travel.  Combating terrorism was an ever-present justification for restrictions, even when there was no evidence.

ID cards would cost up to £18 billion over ten years.  The Lib Dem policy would be to spend the money elsewhere.  ID cards were likely to cost up to £300 per person.  Lib Dems would continue to fight against their introduction.  There would be a good chance of abandonment if Labour did not have an overall majority after the next Westminster election.

Mr Smith's birthday was the following day and he was presented with DVDs of the feature film 'Taking Liberties' and the Group's own 'ID-Day Demonstration' (also available on You Tube).

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5 March 2008 - Jamie Hepburn MSP (SNP)

Mr Hepburn, Convener of the Cross-Party Group in the Scottish Parliament on Human Rights and Civil Liberties said that one of the objectives of the group was to raise public awareness of civil liberties and to warn of the dangers of losing those rights for which our forebears had fought. The publicity for the meeting had mentioned 1984. He did not think that we were yet in a 1984-like state. The significance of civil liberties and broader concepts of human rights were all too often maligned and downplayed, but little was of more importance to the human experience than the rights and freedoms that were all too often taken for granted.

He was alarmed by the advent of the state-led database society and the idea that every citizen in the land might be legally required to carry some form of identity card in what is not a time of national extremity or emergency was horrific.

He believed however that the measure would be ineffectual. The notion the threat of terrorism could be countered by ensuring that every citizen carried a little card was patently absurd. Hardened terrorists would circumvent the scheme with ease.

Nor would an ID card scheme have a useful purpose in tackling identity fraud. However, it would further curtail individuals' liberty to go about their daily business without fear of interference from the state. There was a danger that a culture of fear and intimidation will establish itself at a time when distrust of the police and authorities is already building in certain communities. A national ID database will itself be a security risk, not least if the UK Government accidentally loses the computer disks on which it is held.

The idea of a database of the DNA of those who have committed no crime was also anathema to me. The suggestion that the state should be allowed to hold information on the genetic make-up of people who have committed no crime and done no wrong was outrageous.

Amongst the points raised in discussion afterwards was the intriguing one of whether the Scottish Parliament could advise police not to ask people to show cards.

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30 January 2008 - Patrick Harvie MSP (Scottish Green Party)

Mr Harvie said that his first encounter with ID cards was as a student at Manchester Metropolitan University, when he had opposed their introduction; the idea had been dropped. He now had an ID card for the Scottish Parliament, necessary to gain access and to vote, amongst other things, but the difference was no-one was obliged to be an MSP; everyone had a right to a private life without having to justify themselves to the government.

He condemned the use of swipe cards for school meals with the intention of hiding who qualified for free meals; the correct procedure was to eliminate the distinction. He condemned too the increased use of technology being introduced into schools without consultation, fingerprinting, airport-style security scanners, etc. This was inculcating the culture that all were assumed guilty until proved innocent.

What was the role of the State? In Scotland it had always been the case that it was the people who were sovereign, not the government or the head of state. The government was the servant of the people. There had been a slightly different public reaction in Scotland to asylum seekers and about rendition flights. He hoped that this would be true also for ID cards.

The Scottish Parliament had taken a position on ID cards; he would have wished that it had been stronger. He had been shocked at the arguments against - the 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear' mantra which he said was vacuous. It would apply equally to the state opening one's mail, searching one's house without warrant, searching minority ethnic members of the public without reason. This was already happening at Glasgow Central station, risking alienation.

He would not be overly concerned about a voluntary ID card which was not supported by a database. There was no way to know how the database would be used in future.

The debate on the government/citizen relationship would continue, whether ID cards were introduced or not. NO2ID had been very helpful in framing amendments in the Scottish Parliament. Scottish politics were very interesting at present. Fears that the SNP would concentrate on promoting independence at the expense of more immediate matters had not been justified. Rather, there were all-party discussions on the extent of further devolution. NO2ID should be taking notice. Let Scotland show the way for the whole UK!

In answers to questions Mr Harvie agreed to pursue concerns over acquisition of telephone records by various bodies and concerns over the Scottish National Entitlement Card, originally presented to the public as a bus pass.

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